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The sashes that do not indicate Lordhood

Episode 4 - Shindig

The sashes that do not indicate Lordhood

Postby marc pasquin » Mon Feb 16, 2015 1:47 pm

as people know, the red sash worn by sir Harrow during the Shindig itself is meant to represent his status as a Lord (which considering the context could mean anything from an honourary title to being member of the planet's Upper House of government).

It just hit me yesterday that Murphy, the gentleman that "rescue" Kaylee is also wearing one although it is yellow with some thing stripes. As far as I can tell, he receives no honourific either on screen or in the shooting script so it got me wondering as to what it might represent. The fact that the turbanned security guard at the entrance is also wearing one (green with some sort of border) makes me think that sashes on persephone could be generally indicative of ranks.
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Re: The sashes that do not indicate Lordhood

Postby Goodwolf » Wed Feb 18, 2015 1:52 am

Or it could simply be a matter of color. Purple was reserved for Patricians and Nobility, for example.
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Re: The sashes that do not indicate Lordhood

Postby Beery » Mon Apr 06, 2015 10:23 pm

As an expat Briton (who, by divine right knows about lordhood and sirdom), I always thought it funny that "Sir" Warrick Harrow considers himself to be a "Lord" when he's actually a knight. I think he needs to make up his mind. If he's a lord, he needs to be called "Lord Harrow"; if he's a knight, he needs to be called "Sir Warrick".

And does he really need a sash to indicate lordhood when "lord" is a hereditary title? I can see needing a sash if he's a mere knight, but surely anyone who is anyone knows a lord when they see one, and those who don't... well they don't matter (they're probably the kinds of people who want to question buffet tables).

If he was a knight who became a lord, well then maybe it makes some kind of sense, but why keep the "Sir" title when "Lord" or better yet "Earl" (which is a kind of lord) carries much more weight.

And let's not even go near the "Warrick" vs. "Warwick" controversy. I wouldn't want to confuse too many Americans. :P
Last edited by Beery on Mon Apr 06, 2015 10:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The sashes that do not indicate Lordhood

Postby taimdala » Mon Apr 06, 2015 10:27 pm

Is it possible to be both a Lord and a Knight? As an American who has trouble keeping this sort of thing straight, I thought I'd ask.

And perhaps the colors of the sashes don't indicate a specific rank but simply Family or Bloodline or Fiefdom/State/Territory.

Edit: The word I was looking for was "Livery". LOL. Sorry. Ignorant colonial over here!
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Re: The sashes that do not indicate Lordhood

Postby Beery » Mon Apr 06, 2015 10:30 pm

taimdala wrote:Is it possible to be both a Lord and a Knight?


I suppose so, but as I understand it, you'd drop the "Sir" at the point you became a lord, because you're essentially graduating from a commoner to become a peer of the realm (which is like a more royal form of commoner). On the other hand, even children of lords can be called "lord", so it still doesn't work.

Of course the whole thing is a lot more complex than even my British brain can fathom, because at some point on the way from Baron (the lowest lord) to Duke (the highest), lords become "actual" royals.
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Re: The sashes that do not indicate Lordhood

Postby taimdala » Mon Apr 06, 2015 10:41 pm

Beery wrote:
taimdala wrote:Is it possible to be both a Lord and a Knight?


I suppose so, but as I understand it, you'd drop the "Sir" at the point you became a lord. I guess keeping two titles even strikes royalty as too extravagant.


:D Makes sense. Her Majesty, Queen Elizabeth II, always struck me as a very classy lady.

But in Firefly, even a world such as Persephone--though technically still in the Core given its location on the map--was presented as a place that had more pretensions to being Core-level Civilized than actually being up to Core Standards. The fact that people had titles like Lord and Sir and fought with swords had a whiff of medieval backwardness that would have been looked upon as benighted behavior on a world like Londinium and Sihnon. But, as those on the more central Core planets might say, how else would you expect of a world on the fringes of true civilization to behave anyway?

That's how I saw it, at any rate. YMMV!
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Re: The sashes that do not indicate Lordhood

Postby Beery » Mon Apr 06, 2015 10:55 pm

taimdala wrote:...Persephone--though technically still in the Core given its location on the map--was presented as a place that had more pretensions to being Core-level Civilized than actually being up to Core Standards. The fact that people had titles like Lord and Sir and fought with swords had a whiff of medieval backwardness that would have been looked upon as benighted behavior on a world like Londinium and Sihnon.


Excellent points!
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Re: The sashes that do not indicate Lordhood

Postby taimdala » Mon Apr 06, 2015 10:58 pm

Thank you! :D
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